I wasn't sure I liked this episode that much after my first viewing. Now that I've watched closer, there was a lot of character information and development in it that really made it much better than I'd originally thought. There was the standard demon world story, of course, and the helpless in danger and in need of Angel. And there was Joss's "Sex is bad" message that crops up from time to time in Buffy. He never fails to point out that sex has consequences, and I'm continually amazed by the way he uses larger than life events to point out the realities of real-life issues.
"I liked this ep. I did. Parts of it were quite funny, some were touching, I
didn't see all of it coming, and that shot of Cordy drinking blood in front
of the fridge was one of the scariest/funniest things I've seen in some
time." -- Kiki
"The 'sex is bad' message on this show (and I'm counting it as part of Buffy)
has just tripped my tolerance limit. Yes, it's a horror show, whose
metaphors and subtext are aimed at inflating normal fears and badness to
funny/terrifying heights. And I know they can't exactly come out with
something in support of 'illicit' sex with that kind of set-up --- it would
get as exaggerated as the 'sex is bad' message and draw twice the criticism
from all the groups who are always too ready to diss TV.
But this is way past stupid, now. Not one of the Slayerettes has been forced
not to 'pay' for having sex, except for Willow. . . . . I'm not protesting the set-ups as shown. They all make sense. And God knows,they're effectively done. It's just... I'd like some balance. Maybe I'm asking for too much. But wouldn't it be cool, if just *once*, something
really positive came out of someone having sex?" -- Kiki
"I know Joss is into consequences. Fine. Good. Show some good
unexpected consequences from sex for once, man. Not everything has to be a
freakin' message to the masses; sometimes it *can* just be entertainment,
the same way sex can be fun, sometimes. I want to see someone's kiss de-rat
Amy; I want to see Dennis have a date (or, well, hear it) and get to move on
to the light because of it; I want Wesley to develop a spine after a night
with some punk leather rocker from La Jolla. Anything!" -- Kiki
::sigh:: I *really* liked the fact that the Buffy group had a strong,
self-assured virgin. But the first date Cordy has after high school and
... well, we won't go there. Have Joss & Co. ever gone on one date that didn't end 'ribbed or extra lube?'?? " --abby
"I'm not convinced from what we saw that Cordelia *was* a virgin as of this
episode. She was too comfortable letting the guy come in, and although she
said she hadn't done this in, well, ever, I got the idea that she meant
'hadn't had anyone over to her place in a one-on-one dating, young single
woman living alone' kind of situation. That's a very different thing than
losing your virginity in the back seat of the car with some high school boy.
Plus, she told Angel it was "normal. everything was normal" -- how could she
even try to say it was normal if she had no frame of reference? Denial?
Maybe. I'd have thought she would have at least sheepishly admitted it was
her first time if it was. They've never presented her either way. She didn't sleep with Xander -- but
that could have been because she couldn't ever quite get past the idea that
she was lowering her standards. Or it could be because he was the first guy
she actually *felt* something for so she held back. She said in Phases 'We
came here to do things I can never tell my father about because he still
thinks I'm a... good girl.' And that's the closest we have to any kind of
hint that she wasn't a virgin -- and first season Cordelia (and early 2nd)
dated around a *lot.* So it's believable that she did have at least one
encounter. --MB, responding to abby
"I guess I figured she was just another girl who used a rep whether it
really was her or not. She needed to be Queen C, and if that meant saying
you had the most experience, well she would. And she could have been
experienced without doing it. At that age, how many guys would've said
nything to cover their own inexperience?" -- abby, responding to MB
"There was a line in City Of when she was talking to Russell Winters that
made it sound like she almost might kinda sleep with him if he could help
her. So it's not totally beyond belief that she (as MB said) had sex in
high school before we knew her, and slowed down on that aspect of her life
when she started gaining more self-respect. We went from
early-first-season-Cordy who (as I said in my comments on Never Kill A Boy)
went through guys like Kleenex, to Prophesy Girl where she was sincerely
falling for Kevin, to her relationship with Xander which (again as MB said)
meant more to her than she was willing to admit. When she stopped holding
herself so cheaply, sex was more of an issue.
In LA, she scared, insecure, without any support but Angel. She's just
lost Doyle, and she's had something seriously freaky happen to her. In a
moment of weakness, she looked for some comfort -- and ended up 8 1/2
months pregnant." -- Lizbet
"...what Kiki said earlier, about being annoyed that
sex=badness. I was thinking about it, and really it's impulse=badness.
Everytime one of the Scooby gang did something on impulse. ('Amy, cast me
a love spell.' 'I wish Buffy Summers had never come to Sunnydale.') the
consequenses were awful. . . . Now, then, compare this to Oz and Willow. They didn't even consider having sex for a long time. When Willow was feeling guilty about kissing Xander
(another impulse that had disasterous results) she tried to come onto Oz,
and he told her to wait. They had an over-a-year-long relationship before
they made love, and nothing bad happened. (Until Veruca.)"
"Was it *ever* actually said on the show that Cordy was a virgin? *We*
assumed she was, I believe, in our discussions...but I don't think that was
ever stated. And from the way she talked to
photographer-demon-worshipper-guy, it didn't sound like it was her first
time. She certainly didn't act like, or say anything to indicate, it
*was*...so my assumption is that it wasn't." --Gina, in response to abby
"Right there with ya, Abby. Except that it was never a fact, only a theory.
Unfortunately. And a theory that I think has been soundly disproved,
because the way Cordy made the invitation rang completely wrong for it to
be her first time, but felt right on the money for an already sexually
active woman deciding to take the plunge with someone she'd been seeing for
a while. At least they *did* pay lip service to her having been seeing him for a
while--Serena's comments indicated it *wasn't* their first date. Still and all, *grump*."
--Val in response to abby
"Ouch. Sheesh. Harsh. It wasn't her first date out of high school, and it
wasn't even her first date with this guy. Grant you, I think sleeping with
someone on your third date might be a little soon but a) Cordy is, at most,
19 and b) he *was* playing the absolute 'perfect man'."
"In LA, she scared, insecure, without any support but Angel. She's just
lost Doyle, and she's had something seriously freaky happen to her. In a
moment of weakness, she looked for some comfort -- and ended up 8 1/2
months pregnant."
"I'd have thought she would have at least sheepishly admitted it was her first time if it was. "
"All that said, I'm still a little disappointed, too, like Abby is. However
'unrealistic' Joss & Co. consider it that there are virgins over the age of
17 out there, I can honestly say that only *1* of about seven close female
friends of mine had sex until they were at least 21. Which had nothing to do
with them being unattractive, crazy, religious, or prudes; they just wanted
to do it right. Most of them didn't meet guys they trusted and loved until
they were well into college, or beyond it. It would be nice if someone on
this show, which so closely mirrors our thoughts and feelings in other ways,
was able to mirror this rather cautious aspect of some of our experiences
too, wouldn't it?" -- Kiki
"< grumble > Well, we can assume, I guess, that Amy's still a virgin. She's
been a rat for a year, and before that, she was her mom for three months.
She's had fewer opportunities. < g >" -- Kiki
"Grant you, I think sleeping with someone on your third date might be a little soon but a)
Cordy is, at most, 19 and b) he *was* playing the absolute "perfect man"."
"Everytime one of the Scooby gang did something on impulse.
('Amy, cast me a love spell.' 'I wish Buffy Summers had never come to
Sunnydale.') the consequenses were awful."
"I think most any show uses sex/dating/relationships for crisis
(unless you're doing a neck-of-the-week-we-don't-care-about). In
Buffyville, all crises are overinflated and demonic. I don't see them
using that in dating/sex/relationships notably more than in
everything else in Sunnyhell. A little more, yes, but it's a potent
sort of mix and provides many volitile situations. I don't thing Joss & co are actually pushing a 'sex is bad'
message here, or even necessarily an 'impulse is bad' message.
They're just dedicated to two things-- everything having actual
serious consequences, and every crisis being huge and demonic--
that together mean that they are, largely, 'doomed' in the romance
department." -- Dianne
Comments to angel@rhiannon.dreamhost.com.
Back to Episodes
Beth's Review
I did feel a bit hit over the head by Angel's constant sneaking up on people. It was used far too often to be subtle, and didn't really lead anywhere in my opinion. He's stealthy, but we knew that. Let's move on.
Characters:
Wesley
I love the male sidekick hero-worship on this show. First with (*sniff*) Doyle being so obviously in awe of Angel in so many ways, and now with Wesley being as giddy as a schoolboy just for being allowed to help. It's obvious that Wesley's lonely, and it's nice to see him more humble, even with his transparent attempts to look so superior from time to time. I look forward to seeing him start to accept his role on this evil-fighting team bit by bit and to him finally realizing he has a place there. And getting a little more backbone.
Angel
Interesting insight into his character. When the bartender asks him if he's Cordy's boyfriend he says no, he's family. And I guess that's how he sees Cordy. And how he saw Doyle. He probably sees Wesley as the new adoptee. People who can't always take care of themselves but who can help him take care of others like them. And people who mean a lot to him.
Cordelia
What can I say? She went through hell, and proved how strong she was in the process. Now if she'd just get a fashion consultant who wasn't born in a hay barn, she's be almost perfect.
Relationships:
Again I'm thinking solely of the family issue. Three people who really have no one else and have formed their own dysfunctional family. It's sweet.
Best Moments:
Wesley and Angel fighting the demon baby. It's the first time Wesley's been active in a demon fighting like that and come away on his own two feet that I can remember. It was cool to see the male bonding moment after, and to see Wesley revert to his normal insecure self with a need to be liked when the topic turned to Cordy's friends.
The moment when Angel and Wesley found Cordy. It was so honest, with none of the sarcasm or falseness that they, like everyone else, display on a regular basis. It was the moment when true family feelings were most obvious between the three.
When they killed the demon. Again Wesley showed no signs of backing down, without being out of character (he was looking for Angel rather desperately). And he didn't miss when he shot at the canister. He's turning into the third person their team really needs.
At the end, when Cordy says what she learned. It was a sweet moment saved from being saccharine by Wesley's silly emotional reaction.
Rating:
It wasn't the best episode ever, but there was a great deal of character development there, and for that I'll give it a 3.75 out of 5.
SunSpeak
"But they got to know each other first. I was kinda annoyed that for them
it was a world's ending, let's calm down by sleeping together thing. But
it at least showed a couple growing and learning about each other before
they have sex. And Cordy and Xander found you could do a lot nd not
technically sleep together. Though, they also knew each other very well
first. This season is all about sleeping with people before you really now them."
"And paying, and paying, and paying.... Which adds up to a *duh* for some of
us, but hey, maybe the under-18 set need the moral lesson. :P"
--Lizbet, abby, Kiki
"Sorry, I'm still rather peeved with certain assumptions some of the
writers have (one stating so on the Board), about youngish people and
sex. The fact that everyone seems to *have* to have sex is really
annoying. (Well, except for Doyle.) I kept hoping they would have done something interesting with the plot. Like make it Dennis' baby. (Less cheezy than Callisto.) And, like Betsy, I thought that guy was bad... it was the smile. Normal guys aren't that good at the 'look ma, I'm being sincere' smile."
"It wasn't as creative as I would've liked to see. Straight Rosemary's Baby
ripoff, including the surrogate. But the execution of it was fun." -- Lizbet, abby, Kiki
"So why do we have to go through every few weeks a Cordy's lost her
confidence episode? Sure the producers wanted to do Rosemary's Baby, but,
couldn't they have done it to Kate? " -- Lizbet, abby
"I don't know about *that*... but the thing is, your first time is supposed
to be (although a lot of times it isn't) special. One way or the other--
it's memorable. Given the big deal Joss made of Buffy, Willow, and Xander's
'rites of passage,' I tend to think that this wasn't Cordy's first time. Not
enough of a big deal about it." --MB & Kiki
"And what is this three-date rule? IT came up on Charmed, too. I go on three
dates, I decide whether I want to smother the guy or see him again, I don't
decide about sex that fast! Jeeeezz.." -- Lizbet, Kiki
"See, Joss doesn't trust impulses. I bet he dated his wife for five years
before he proposed. People can have good impulses --- if they're not morons to begin with! : > In
the case of the Buffy crew, they're adolescents, of course their instincts
suck. I wish someone would have one positive impulse work out, though. :>" --Lizbet, Kiki
This page last updated February 9, 2000.